[APBeta] Windows menus

Fri Oct 30 21:48:30 PDT 2009

Personally, I prefer to have all menu items visible, with any that are not 
applicable being disabled.

I find it much easier to learn a menu system if things aren't always 
shifting around and appearing/disappearing in a menu.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <apbeta-request at lists.astroplanner.net>
To: <apbeta at lists.astroplanner.net>
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 11:29 PM
Subject: APBeta Digest, Vol 18, Issue 19

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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Windows menus (Paul Rodman)
>   2. Re: Windows menus (Greg Elton)
>   3. Re: Windows menus (CER)
>   4. Re: Windows menus (Paul Kemp)
>   5. Menu Functionality (David Hill)
>   6. Re: Windows menus (Paul Rodman)
>   7. Re: Windows menus (Marius Strom)
>   8. Re: Windows menus (CER)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 17:28:25 -0700
> From: Paul Rodman <paul at ilanga.com>
> To: AstroPlanner Beta Testers <apbeta at lists.astroplanner.net>
> Subject: [APBeta] Windows menus
> Message-ID: <97891F32-226A-4791-828F-D8DABF25BF05 at ilanga.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> Windows-using folks,
>
> What's the desired functionality for the menus in a window?
>
> a. Every window has all the menus with all menu entries, and just
> disables those that don't apply to the window (this is the current
> method).
>
> b. A window only has those menus that contain entries pertinent to the
> window, but those menus contain all the items, with the unused ones
> dimmed.
>
> c. A window only has those menus that contain entries pertinent to the
> window, and only containing items pertinent to the window. e.g. for a
> simple window, the File menu might only contain the "Close" item.
>
> I'm trying to figure out how typical Windows apps behave.
>
> Paul R.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 12:05:20 +1030
> From: "Greg Elton" <gelton at bigpond.net.au>
> To: "'AstroPlanner Beta Testers'" <apbeta at lists.astroplanner.net>
> Subject: Re: [APBeta] Windows menus
> Message-ID: <000901ca59ca$68912910$39b37b30$@net.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Point C - less clutter.
> Regards
> Greg Elton
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: apbeta-bounces at lists.astroplanner.net
> [mailto:apbeta-bounces at lists.astroplanner.net] On Behalf Of Paul Rodman
> Sent: Saturday, 31 October 2009 10:58
> To: AstroPlanner Beta Testers
> Subject: [APBeta] Windows menus
>
> Windows-using folks,
>
> What's the desired functionality for the menus in a window?
>
> a. Every window has all the menus with all menu entries, and just
> disables those that don't apply to the window (this is the current
> method).
>
> b. A window only has those menus that contain entries pertinent to the
> window, but those menus contain all the items, with the unused ones
> dimmed.
>
> c. A window only has those menus that contain entries pertinent to the
> window, and only containing items pertinent to the window. e.g. for a
> simple window, the File menu might only contain the "Close" item.
>
> I'm trying to figure out how typical Windows apps behave.
>
> Paul R.
>
> _______________________________________________
> APBeta mailing list
> APBeta at lists.astroplanner.net
> http://lists.astroplanner.net/listinfo.cgi/apbeta-astroplanner.net
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 21:39:37 -0400
> From: CER <cer1 at earthlink.net>
> To: AstroPlanner Beta Testers <apbeta at lists.astroplanner.net>
> Subject: Re: [APBeta] Windows menus
> Message-ID: <4AEB9559.6D656362 at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 14:46:39 +1300
> From: Paul Kemp <paul at bluedahlia.co.nz>
> To: AstroPlanner Beta Testers <apbeta at lists.astroplanner.net>
> Subject: Re: [APBeta] Windows menus
> Message-ID:
> <2613d9cb0910301846l32be9d93o46f7b4bac3222fe at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> C for me!!
>
> Paul
>
> On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 2:39 PM, CER <cer1 at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi Paul,
>>
>> I too would say that 'C' is more traditional in Windows land
>>
>> Problem is... I've kind of gotten used to the way you have it! I may
>> actually need to "see" it implimented to be sure "C" is preferable.
>>
>> Seems like an awefull lot of work... but you're "*tha man*".
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Paul Rodman wrote:
>>
>> Windows-using folks,
>>
>> What's the desired functionality for the menus in a window?
>>
>> a. Every window has all the menus with all menu entries, and just
>> disables those that don't apply to the window (this is the current
>> method).
>>
>> b. A window only has those menus that contain entries pertinent to the
>> window, but those menus contain all the items, with the unused ones
>> dimmed.
>>
>> c. A window only has those menus that contain entries pertinent to the
>> window, and only containing items pertinent to the window. e.g. for a
>> simple window, the File menu might only contain the "Close" item.
>>
>> I'm trying to figure out how typical Windows apps behave.
>>
>> Paul R.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> APBeta mailing list
>> APBeta at lists.astroplanner.net
>> http://lists.astroplanner.net/listinfo.cgi/apbeta-astroplanner.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> APBeta mailing list
>> APBeta at lists.astroplanner.net
>> http://lists.astroplanner.net/listinfo.cgi/apbeta-astroplanner.net
>>
>>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 21:11:02 -0500
> From: David Hill <dhillmilquetoast at hotmail.com>
> To: Paul Rodman <apbeta at lists.astroplanner.net>
> Subject: [APBeta] Menu Functionality
> Message-ID: <BLU145-W143173BF58D6C2935CAE62DEB50 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> For me, point b).
>
>
>
> In one windows statistical software package utilized frequently, graphs 
> can be added to page layouts as drawings.  The Edit menu has the functions 
> Undo Last Action (Ctrl+Z) and Redo Last Action (Ctrl+Y).  In the menu, a 
> given action, say drawing is intuitive because a graph to a layout can be 
> done, then undone if desired.  How such functionality would be implemented 
> into AP V2 is difficult for me to say.
>
>
>
> David H. -
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: apbeta-bounces at lists.astroplanner.net
> [mailto:apbeta-bounces at lists.astroplanner.net] On Behalf Of Paul Rodman
> Sent: Saturday, 31 October 2009 10:58
> To: AstroPlanner Beta Testers
> Subject: [APBeta] Windows menus
>
> Windows-using folks,
>
> What's the desired functionality for the menus in a window?
>
> a. Every window has all the menus with all menu entries, and just
> disables those that don't apply to the window (this is the current
> method).
>
> b. A window only has those menus that contain entries pertinent to the
> window, but those menus contain all the items, with the unused ones
> dimmed.
>
> c. A window only has those menus that contain entries pertinent to the
> window, and only containing items pertinent to the window. e.g. for a
> simple window, the File menu might only contain the "Close" item.
>
> I'm trying to figure out how typical Windows apps behave.
>
> Paul R.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows 7: It helps you do more. Explore Windows 7.
> http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_evergreen3:102009
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 21:22:26 -0700
> From: Paul Rodman <paul at ilanga.com>
> To: AstroPlanner Beta Testers <apbeta at lists.astroplanner.net>
> Subject: Re: [APBeta] Windows menus
> Message-ID: <41D0D7AD-602B-41D7-AA8E-A7EC36BB6F56 at ilanga.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
>
> On Oct 30, 2009, at 6:39 PM, CER wrote:
>
>> I too would say that 'C' is more traditional in Windows land
>>
>> Problem is... I've kind of gotten used to the way you have it! I may
>> actually need to "see" it implimented to be sure "C" is preferable.
>
> I'm used to the Mac world where there is only one menubar and it
> traditionally has all the menus and items for all windows in the app
> and just disables those that aren't applicable. This makes it easy for
> "muscle memory" since the items are always in the same place. The
> Windows world is different and very alien to me. Menus are not
> consistent and are attached to windows that can have different
> positions, etc.
>
> I have (effectively) implemented (b) since it's easy to do. (c) is a
> lot harder (i.e. a big schlepp). I might leave it as (b) for now and
> see if I can devise a means to do (c) without breaking stuff.
>
> I was hoping to get a release out today, but it won't make it until
> tomorrow at the earliest.
>
> Paul R.
>
>> Paul Rodman wrote:
>>> Windows-using folks,
>>> What's the desired functionality for the menus in a window?
>>>
>>> a. Every window has all the menus with all menu entries, and just
>>> disables those that don't apply to the window (this is the current
>>> method).
>>>
>>> b. A window only has those menus that contain entries pertinent to
>>> the
>>> window, but those menus contain all the items, with the unused ones
>>> dimmed.
>>>
>>> c. A window only has those menus that contain entries pertinent to
>>> the
>>> window, and only containing items pertinent to the window. e.g. for a
>>> simple window, the File menu might only contain the "Close" item.
>>>
>>> I'm trying to figure out how typical Windows apps behave.
>>>
>>> Paul R.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 21:24:44 -0700
> From: Marius Strom <marius at thestroms.org>
> To: AstroPlanner Beta Testers <apbeta at lists.astroplanner.net>
> Cc: AstroPlanner Beta Testers <apbeta at lists.astroplanner.net>
> Subject: Re: [APBeta] Windows menus
> Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP2153361D5445D3FD86C702C2B50 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> I actually do think B is normal for the Windows world.
>
> Sent from my mobile device: +1 (206) 251-0679
>
>
> On Oct 30, 2009, at 9:22 PM, Paul Rodman <paul at ilanga.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Oct 30, 2009, at 6:39 PM, CER wrote:
>>
>>> I too would say that 'C' is more traditional in Windows land
>>>
>>> Problem is... I've kind of gotten used to the way you have it! I
>>> may actually need to "see" it implimented to be sure "C" is
>>> preferable.
>>
>> I'm used to the Mac world where there is only one menubar and it
>> traditionally has all the menus and items for all windows in the app
>> and just disables those that aren't applicable. This makes it easy
>> for "muscle memory" since the items are always in the same place.
>> The Windows world is different and very alien to me. Menus are not
>> consistent and are attached to windows that can have different
>> positions, etc.
>>
>> I have (effectively) implemented (b) since it's easy to do. (c) is a
>> lot harder (i.e. a big schlepp). I might leave it as (b) for now and
>> see if I can devise a means to do (c) without breaking stuff.
>>
>> I was hoping to get a release out today, but it won't make it until
>> tomorrow at the earliest.
>>
>> Paul R.
>>
>>> Paul Rodman wrote:
>>>> Windows-using folks,
>>>> What's the desired functionality for the menus in a window?
>>>>
>>>> a. Every window has all the menus with all menu entries, and just
>>>> disables those that don't apply to the window (this is the current
>>>> method).
>>>>
>>>> b. A window only has those menus that contain entries pertinent to
>>>> the
>>>> window, but those menus contain all the items, with the unused ones
>>>> dimmed.
>>>>
>>>> c. A window only has those menus that contain entries pertinent to
>>>> the
>>>> window, and only containing items pertinent to the window. e.g.
>>>> for a
>>>> simple window, the File menu might only contain the "Close" item.
>>>>
>>>> I'm trying to figure out how typical Windows apps behave.
>>>>
>>>> Paul R.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>> _______________________________________________
>> APBeta mailing list
>> APBeta at lists.astroplanner.net
>> http://lists.astroplanner.net/listinfo.cgi/apbeta-astroplanner.net
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 00:27:00 -0400
> From: CER <cer1 at earthlink.net>
> To: AstroPlanner Beta Testers <apbeta at lists.astroplanner.net>
> Subject: Re: [APBeta] Windows menus
> Message-ID: <4AEBBC94.EA517870 at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
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