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Paul, wiki sounds great and actually works already!!<br>
<br>
I registered with the wiki and put a few words on the first time users
page, knowing full well that once that page is written that those words
will be replaced.<br>
<br>
Are you userid number 1?<br>
<br>
I will write what I learn installing the Temma 2M mount using ASCOM 5.5
platform and create page for that documentation. Once there is some
wiki organization defined then I will move it to the appropriate place
in the wiki. Have to get the mount before I can install it but do have
the ASCOM platform and appropriate driver installed and defined to AP
beta at this time. Of course I expect that there are already a number
of those mounts already running under the Beta. <br>
<div class="moz-signature">
<title></title>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72"> ~~~ ~~~
<font face="Comic Sans MS">Ron Ridge</font>
~~~ ~~~
<font face="Segoe Print">Send to:</font> <font face="Segoe UI"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ridgerunner.007@gmail.com">ridgerunner.007@gmail.com</a></font></pre>
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<br>
On 6/20/2010 7:24 PM, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:apbeta-request@lists.astroplanner.net">apbeta-request@lists.astroplanner.net</a> wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:mailman.6199.1277087095.23212.apbeta-astroplanner.net@lists.astroplanner.net"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Send APBeta mailing list submissions to
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To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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You can reach the person managing the list at
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of APBeta digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Documentation using a wiki (Igor Mikolic-Torreira)
2. Re: Documentation using a wiki (Paul Rodman)
3. Re: Documentation using a wiki (Dan Kuchta)
4. Re: Documentation using a wiki (Paul Rodman)
5. Re: Documentation using a wiki (Dave Eaglesham)
6. Re: Documentation using a wiki (Paul Kemp)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 16:21:21 -0400
From: Igor Mikolic-Torreira <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:igormtnews@comcast.net"><igormtnews@comcast.net></a>
To: AstroPlanner Beta Testers <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:apbeta@lists.astroplanner.net"><apbeta@lists.astroplanner.net></a>
Subject: Re: [APBeta] Documentation using a wiki
Message-ID: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:4C1E7841.10803@comcast.net"><4C1E7841.10803@comcast.net></a>
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I'll gladly contribute.
Igor
Paul Rodman wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I am thinking of creating a wiki (a la Wikipedia) for providing documentation for AstroPlanner V2* (in particular the "how to" stuff. The reference stuff will still be via embedded help). As a matter of interest, how many of you are
a. Familiar with editing a wiki** (in this case it will probably be MediaWiki, as used by Wikipedia I believe)?
and/or
b. Would be interested in creating content for, or editing existing content of, such a wiki?
Apart from (possibly) speeding up the release process, it would allow continuing feedback. e.g. if someone needs to use AstroPlanner to predict variable star peaks and this is not in the wiki, it could be added.
I have also heard, but only in passing, that it is also possible to produce a PDF from a Wiki (for those who like printed manuals).
Paul R.
* Thanks to tester Marius Strom for the idea.
** I'm actually quite ignorant of these things. I spent yesterday afternoon installing wiki software and starting to figure out how it is edited, etc. Turns out to be quite easy.
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 14:00:33 -0700
From: Paul Rodman <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:paul@ilanga.com"><paul@ilanga.com></a>
To: AstroPlanner Beta Testers <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:apbeta@lists.astroplanner.net"><apbeta@lists.astroplanner.net></a>
Subject: Re: [APBeta] Documentation using a wiki
Message-ID: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:713E688C-48F8-45F2-B223-44E707AAA518@ilanga.com"><713E688C-48F8-45F2-B223-44E707AAA518@ilanga.com></a>
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Good point. MediaWiki allows for multiple languages. I won't be able to do much more than British English I'm afraid.
Paul R.
On Jun 20, 2010, at 1:18 PM, Jorge Arranz wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">You know I offerred to translate manuals into Spanish, so could do with wiki.
Jorge Arranz
qfwfqestuvoalli.wordpress.com
2010/6/20 Paul Rodman <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:paul@ilanga.com"><paul@ilanga.com></a>
On Jun 20, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Marius Strom wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Why don't you appoint a core team of folks to police the process, keeping the editing to a core group of folks to begin with. As it gets more widely used, then it can open up further.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
I still need to figure out how to do that.
BTW, the wiki, in all it's empty glory is at <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.astroplanner.net">http://wiki.astroplanner.net</a>
Paul R.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
-----Original Message----- From: Paul Rodman
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 10:42 AM
To: AstroPlanner Beta Testers
Subject: Re: [APBeta] Documentation using a wiki
Initially, I need to put together a tentative table of contents and then start adding pages/"articles" which you can poke at/add to/edit, etc.
I suspect I might need to add some control over who gets to edit stuff. I don't want to have to spend my time policing the process.
Paul R.
On Jun 20, 2010, at 10:35 AM, Phil Gaskill wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I've done a fair amount of Wikipedia editing, so I guess that qualifies me. ;-)
So count me in.
I don't know what your timeframe is for the release. I'm pretty busy at the moment, with some family health problems to take care of, so I might not be much help initially. But I'm definitely good for at least the continuing stuff.
--Phil
On Jun 20, 2010, at 12:33 PM, Paul Rodman wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I am thinking of creating a wiki (a la Wikipedia) for providing documentation for AstroPlanner V2* (in particular the "how to" stuff. The reference stuff will still be via embedded help). As a matter of interest, how many of you are
a. Familiar with editing a wiki** (in this case it will probably be MediaWiki, as used by Wikipedia I believe)?
and/or
b. Would be interested in creating content for, or editing existing content of, such a wiki?
Apart from (possibly) speeding up the release process, it would allow continuing feedback. e.g. if someone needs to use AstroPlanner to predict variable star peaks and this is not in the wiki, it could be added.
I have also heard, but only in passing, that it is also possible to produce a PDF from a Wiki (for those who like printed manuals).
Paul R.
* Thanks to tester Marius Strom for the idea.
** I'm actually quite ignorant of these things. I spent yesterday afternoon installing wiki software and starting to figure out how it is edited, etc. Turns out to be quite easy.
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
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</pre>
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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 18:29:47 -0400
From: Dan Kuchta <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dankuchta@gmail.com"><dankuchta@gmail.com></a>
To: AstroPlanner Beta Testers <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:apbeta@lists.astroplanner.net"><apbeta@lists.astroplanner.net></a>
Subject: Re: [APBeta] Documentation using a wiki
Message-ID: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:873E007F-3120-4B2F-BE7A-36DDC079F367@gmail.com"><873E007F-3120-4B2F-BE7A-36DDC079F367@gmail.com></a>
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Personally, I'm not a big fan of online documentation, wiki or otherwise. If manuals are well written and well organized, they can add dramatically to the usability of the software. By the same token, poorly written manuals can be miserable to wade through. While I'm sure writing manuals is not your favorite task, you are actually quite good at it and in my opinion, your manual is better than most commercial software I've purchased. In fact, it was one of the reasons I purchased AstroPlanner to begin with.
On the other hand, I can certainly understand that you have limited time and would rather spend it writing code instead of manuals. A wiki can be an effective way of getting the information out there and letting the community help with the updates and additions. What you tend to lose is that coherent, organized "train of thought" that runs through a well written manual like yours.
Just my 2 cents. :-)
-Dan
On Jun 20, 2010, at 12:33 PM, Paul Rodman wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I am thinking of creating a wiki (a la Wikipedia) for providing documentation for AstroPlanner V2* (in particular the "how to" stuff. The reference stuff will still be via embedded help). As a matter of interest, how many of you are
a. Familiar with editing a wiki** (in this case it will probably be MediaWiki, as used by Wikipedia I believe)?
and/or
b. Would be interested in creating content for, or editing existing content of, such a wiki?
Apart from (possibly) speeding up the release process, it would allow continuing feedback. e.g. if someone needs to use AstroPlanner to predict variable star peaks and this is not in the wiki, it could be added.
I have also heard, but only in passing, that it is also possible to produce a PDF from a Wiki (for those who like printed manuals).
Paul R.
* Thanks to tester Marius Strom for the idea.
** I'm actually quite ignorant of these things. I spent yesterday afternoon installing wiki software and starting to figure out how it is edited, etc. Turns out to be quite easy.
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<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:APBeta@lists.astroplanner.net">APBeta@lists.astroplanner.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.astroplanner.net/listinfo.cgi/apbeta-astroplanner.net">http://lists.astroplanner.net/listinfo.cgi/apbeta-astroplanner.net</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
=========================================================
If you lined up all the lawyers in the world end to end, no one would care.
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 17:57:16 -0700
From: Paul Rodman <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:paul@ilanga.com"><paul@ilanga.com></a>
To: AstroPlanner Beta Testers <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:apbeta@lists.astroplanner.net"><apbeta@lists.astroplanner.net></a>
Subject: Re: [APBeta] Documentation using a wiki
Message-ID: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:2471A1EE-4D99-400A-A4E7-B988EA5E9982@ilanga.com"><2471A1EE-4D99-400A-A4E7-B988EA5E9982@ilanga.com></a>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Jun 20, 2010, at 3:29 PM, Dan Kuchta wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Personally, I'm not a big fan of online documentation, wiki or otherwise. If manuals are well written and well organized, they can add dramatically to the usability of the software. By the same token, poorly written manuals can be miserable to wade through. While I'm sure writing manuals is not your favorite task, you are actually quite good at it and in my opinion, your manual is better than most commercial software I've purchased. In fact, it was one of the reasons I purchased AstroPlanner to begin with.
On the other hand, I can certainly understand that you have limited time and would rather spend it writing code instead of manuals. A wiki can be an effective way of getting the information out there and letting the community help with the updates and additions. What you tend to lose is that coherent, organized "train of thought" that runs through a well written manual like yours.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
I hear you. I still hope to have a manual. The V1.x manual has probably saved me a lot of support over the years (anecdotal evidence). Yes, it's a pain to write, but not the most onerous task I face (I'd rather be manual writing than trying to fix unreproducible Windows bugs, for example). It's also easier to slap together a manual using a word processor than messing around with wiki formatting, uploading images, etc.
If I was doing it myself.
The reason I like the wiki approach is (a) I can get editorial feedback, and editors can fix my grammar or logical errors/omissions on the spot, (b) third-parties (i.e. you guys) can add your own stuff to the manual and make it better, and (c) it's easier to modify dynamically as features change.
Thinking about this further, for the sake of timeliness, I might be forced to go with a traditional manual. I am offloading the "reference" stuff into the built-in help system, but that's even slower than a wiki.
Paul R.
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 20:07:06 -0600
From: Dave Eaglesham <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dave@eaglesham.ca"><dave@eaglesham.ca></a>
To: AstroPlanner Beta Testers <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:apbeta@lists.astroplanner.net"><apbeta@lists.astroplanner.net></a>
Subject: Re: [APBeta] Documentation using a wiki
Message-ID: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:4C1EC94A.80203@eaglesham.ca"><4C1EC94A.80203@eaglesham.ca></a>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
A wiki is a good idea because it allows for the users to participate in
its development. However, my observatory is does not have internet
access, so I would still like to have a manual that I can download to my
laptop for reference. Astroplanner v1 had a great manual which was one
of the reasons for my choice of the software in the first place.
Regards,
Dave Eaglesham
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dave@eaglesham.ca">dave@eaglesham.ca</a>
On 06/20/10 10:33 AM, Paul Rodman wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I am thinking of creating a wiki (a la Wikipedia) for providing documentation for AstroPlanner V2* (in particular the "how to" stuff. The reference stuff will still be via embedded help). As a matter of interest, how many of you are
a. Familiar with editing a wiki** (in this case it will probably be MediaWiki, as used by Wikipedia I believe)?
and/or
b. Would be interested in creating content for, or editing existing content of, such a wiki?
Apart from (possibly) speeding up the release process, it would allow continuing feedback. e.g. if someone needs to use AstroPlanner to predict variable star peaks and this is not in the wiki, it could be added.
I have also heard, but only in passing, that it is also possible to produce a PDF from a Wiki (for those who like printed manuals).
Paul R.
* Thanks to tester Marius Strom for the idea.
** I'm actually quite ignorant of these things. I spent yesterday afternoon installing wiki software and starting to figure out how it is edited, etc. Turns out to be quite easy.
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 14:14:41 +1200
From: Paul Kemp <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:paul@bluedahlia.co.nz"><paul@bluedahlia.co.nz></a>
To: AstroPlanner Beta Testers <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:apbeta@lists.astroplanner.net"><apbeta@lists.astroplanner.net></a>
Subject: Re: [APBeta] Documentation using a wiki
Message-ID:
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:AANLkTinxOlToanaH3Yr2TfllFAGFwt3WuQ6pi2orkplo@mail.gmail.com"><AANLkTinxOlToanaH3Yr2TfllFAGFwt3WuQ6pi2orkplo@mail.gmail.com></a>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I've been quiet lately. Not much Astronomy happening down here in New
Zealand (When it comes to me!!)
I am for the Wiki. Many hands make light work.
If it helps Paul get the product to the 'paying' public faster. I am all for
it.
I would be glad to help out.
Paul Kemp
13.1" f5 Reflector with Argo Navis & Paracorr
Auckland, New Zealand
36? 55' 09" South, 174? 43' 30" East
--- The Southern Sentinel ---
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.southernsentinel.co.nz">www.southernsentinel.co.nz</a>
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